Podcast: Meet the debt-free community
The social media movement that motivates people to tackle their debt and share their journey.
Paying off debt can feel immensely overwhelming, especially if you feel like you're alone on the journey. Well, as you'll find out in this episode, you're far from alone.
Today on Pocket Money, we explore the not-so-secretive world of the debt-free community on Instagram. We meet people all around the world about their experiences tackling debt, staying motivated and perhaps most interestingly, building one of the most close-knit communities online.
This episode of Pocket Money is proudly presented by Wisr.
Mentioned in this episode
- Download Wisr App
- The Barefoot Investor
- Dave Ramsey
- Debt-free charts
- The #debtfreecommunity on Instagram
Additional credits
A special thank you to everybody who shared their stories with us for this episode. Good luck on your debt-free journey!
- Emma @lookingformycents
- Nika @debtfreegonnabe
- Emily @aussiedebtfreegirl
- Chelsa @debtfreeweirdos
- @the.budget.fanatic
- Mel & Murph @fitnfunds
- @debtfreemillennial
- Brent @driving2wealth
- @thebarefootmillennial
- Tasha @tashagetsfrugal
- Andrew and Sarah
Media
- Top 🔟- Debt Free Screams on The Dave Ramsey Show
- Pocket Money Theme by Bamby Media
Read the transcript of this episode
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Note: This is based on a machine-generated transcript. We've tidied it up, but we're sorry if any glitches have slipped through.
Various
*Screams* 3-2-1... We're debt free!!!Sally
Hey everyone, this is Pocket Money, the show for people who ain't got no time for debt. I'm Sally.Kate Browne
And I'm Kate.Sally
Yep. Today we are diving into the world of the debt free community. We're going to be meeting some of the people on the front lines hearing stories, but seeing what they do come away with in terms of actionable steps.Sally
And before we jump in, we just wanted to say a big welcome to all of our new listeners. There are quite a few of you who have joined us during our break in January.Kate Browne
And if you aren't you just like me, just go back and check out season one. We had some corner episodes on there that Sally and Mark covered last year. They're also completely relevant. My personal favourites was the one Sally did on slow fashion. There's a great one on dream jobs too. So don't be shy. Go check them out.Sally
This episode is proudly presented by WisrKate Browne
Wisr knows that getting a debt under control can be a challenge, but you don't have to face it alone with wiser app. Each purchase you make rounds up your spare change to pay down your debt faster.Sally
That means if you buy a coffee for $3 50 Wisr will round it up to $4 and put that extra 50 cents towards your debt account. It works in the background so you don't even have to lift a fingerKate Browne
Too easy. In fact, you can download the Wisr app on iOS and Android or you can visit wisrapp.com.au. that's spelled W-I-S-Rapp and give it a go. Oh, and stay tuned to the end of the episode to get an exclusive bonus. Just for Pocket Money listeners!Sally
All right, producer Franko, what have you got for us?Franko Ali
This topic has always been super interesting to me. Since I moved here from the US to Australia. I've kind of had to relearn personal finance. And it's sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole online, particularly on social media. In 2018, there was a total of $62 billion JUST FOR HELP debt. So that's student debt in Australia. And then credit card debt is almost 30 billion, just as of 2019. Across the country, credit cards, I think the average works out to around 3300 or so per person. In the US, on the other hand, obviously, quite a larger population, but among all types of debt in the United States, there's $14 trillion of debt, but here you can see, let me just show you two. This is what the debt free community looks like on Instagram. As you can see there, just with this hashtag debt free community Wow, 150,000 posts and that's just a One one hashtag debt free journey there's hashtag DFC, there's hashtag AWS debt free community all is debt free journey. And as you can imagine, there's you know, debt free community, UK, debt free community, name a country, I'm sure it exists. AndKate Browne
I think what's really interesting just looking at some of these Instagram pictures is it's, you know, it's all connected like hopes and dreams, you gotta lock onto something that you really, really want. You know, just saying being debt free is really abstract. Yeah, locking onto something that you love or you you want or you're passionate about is maybe that's how you get there.Franko Ali
You know, if you scroll for a few more minutes here, one thing that you'd notice is some of the thought leaders in this space,Kate Browne
you get a movement you've always got you curious, tell us about them. So IFranko Ali
remember those screams that I had you listen to?Sally
How could i forget. I'm haunted in my dreams.Franko Ali
So those are a well known thing in the debt free community. They come from a very popular radio show in the US and a radio personality by the name of Dave Ramsey. You guys heard of Dave Ramsey. Yeah, not. So Dave Ramsey is kind of one of those like old school radio guys. He's been around for decade plus, has made the transition very smoothly from traditional radio to digital to podcast to YouTube. And here in Australia, someone YouTube probably would be more familiar with is guessing your boy here?Kate Browne
Yeah. Scott Pape. The barefoot investor himself.Franko Ali
Yeah. So I've got a copy of the Barefoot investor book right hereKate Browne
and pretty much every other person in Australia, right?Franko Ali
Yeah, I saw I Guardian article that said roughly one in 20 households in Australia as a copy. So there's over a million over a million copies of this book sold. And one of the things that unites I guess these two thought leaders, these two gurus as it were, is there step by step approach to things which I think has resonated with tonnes of people so actually, the Barefoot investor has what he calls the Barefoot steps and it's a nine step programme to sort of financial independence. And Dave Ramsey. He's got a sort of seven step series, which he calls his baby steps. And if you kind of look at people's captions and even hashtags, like baby step two, on the debt free community, you'll see where people are at and sharing about their journey. SoKate Browne
it's interesting because they pretty similar, and they go from like, the micro to the macro. And what I mean by that is like, the first steps are kind of small, actionable things. So Dave, Dave Ramsey's is like $1,000 to start an emergency fund and the Barefoot investor sort of set up a beer for date night and set up your buckets, which cause I have actually read this book. I know it sort of means like getting some funding in action, but I love that it kind of goes through it sort of, it's like short snackable things you can definitely do quickly to kind of consolidating that and then buy for them and which I think is really cute and nice. It's it's about Dave Ramsey's, like build wealth and give and Scott papes is about you know, thinking about retirement,Sally
Also leaving a legacy. So it goes from Those tiny little and it really does show it from those tiny little actions. You can work your way through to something big I can definitely say how they slightly different just because one is like very Australian, but overall that it is kind of the same message like starting off sorting a shade at, you know your existing finances your debts, then building wealth and then giving back.Kate Browne
Just the whole life cycle.Sally
But it really is like a good message. AndKate Browne
this is where the magic is. And I know I know certainly from rainy Scott papes book but what blew my mind about it? And I thought it's an amazing No one's ever thought of is he literally tells you what to do. Yeah tells you what to say if you're going to pick up the phone. He tells you what super fun to go to not just go and pick a superfan He's like, go to this super fund. This is the best one. You know, you could say it's sort of finance advice for lazy people, but we're probably lazy people because no one wants to do this shit after a long day doing whatever you do. So we know the steps we know there's a cult. How do people get into it Franco? What's the trigger for most fable?Franko Ali
So this is a woman from Perth named Emma. So she goes by looking after my sense on Instagram, she actually had a really great story about her her handle and how it kind of came from a saying her grandma used to say and all that. But yeah, and that's got, you know, 8000 followers on Instagram, so got a little bit of an audience that she's grown over the years and I will just let her tell her story.@lookingaftermycents
At the end of 2016 we had already become consumer debt free. We've been following the Dave Ramsey plan, not to the tee, but just finding motivation. And through that I was watching YouTube videos a lot from America and from the YouTube videos, there was Instagram. Instagram was really growing in America for the debt free community and yeah, I really just wanted to, I guess be a part of something and and help other people become that Free because we had already done that in our house and get more motivation from others like, like, I know that once we became debt free, I kind of felt on the fence like I didn't really know what to do next. And looking forward, I didn't know where to go. So people in the community that were becoming debt free themselves and had already become debt free. I really enjoyed watching their pages, and following along with what they were doing.Franko Ali
So Emma, as you can hear, she kind of is in the community, but she's already tackled her debt. And that's one of the things I noticed right away is that the community just, it's separated into sort of micro groups of people at all stages on their debt free journey. There are people that are already debt free. There are people that have just kind of discovered this and are starting to think about their debt and just kind of turning that corner. And a lot of the people I talked about, they don't really mind who they're following where they're at with their stages of debt. They all feel like they're kind of one group and one community and it's it was really interesting to see@debtfreegonnabe
Actually like that that's the sign of a trick community. It's not a get in sort myself out and get out which is kind of interesting. So I'm nega, but I am better known as get forgot to be on Instagram. And I started that Instagram page to hold myself accountable through this whole debt free journey. I'm not a die hard day brandy enthusiam enthusiast so I'll go ahead and put that out there don't follow his steps to a tee. But I started to kind of start looking him up Google searches I think I came across, you know, some social media of his and and then I somehow another hit this hashtag hashtag debt free community on Instagram. And this was before I had really gotten serious about my own debt free journey and, you know, something like looking around and I'm seeing people talk about they paid off this and they're saving this and will I'm debt free. And you know, they paid off these huge amounts of money and I'm like, if they can be serious about it, they can do it. I can definitely do. I mean people with you know, less than me but people with more debt than me and so I kind of haphazardly, like landed on the debt free community, but I am happy I didSally
I like that it sounds like she's you know, it's really changed her life, this community but what I really like about is that she says that she's not you know, like a Dave Ramsey diehard fan and I think that can be off putting for some people being like, No, you have to stick to the book, follow every single step. Whereas I like the idea that she's kind of just pulling little bits of inspiration from the community from him and then applying it to her own situation.Kate Browne
I like that too, because I have to confess that my partner and I read the before investor, and then we were meant to set up the date night which is part of BS regime. And we had an argument about where we were going to go and where we were.Unknown Speaker
We didn't guy in the back of the cupboard. debt is normal here, you know, and they're pretty People who are strapped with student loans like myself, car payments, credit card debt, you know, payday loans, all types of debt. And it's normal when you realise that a lot of people around you are in it too. And so, you know, define this community and be able to kind of immerse yourself in it and get the support that you need that you may not necessarily get, you know, in your home or even amongst her friends. It's been great.Sally
It's interesting that she says that debt is normal, which I think we all just think of it as a part of life, but it's not like normal to talk about it, or at least in my circles, it's just something that, you know, we all know that we have it in some way, shape or form. But when it comes to actually talking about getting out of it, it's I think, like you said, Kate earlier, it's a bit shameful.Kate Browne
Yeah, I agree. And I think you know, it is normal. Everyone has debt. As soon as you start not talking about things, then I think that's, we can get into trouble because you can also pretend it doesn't exist. Yeah, exactly. Bed accountability.Sally
Yeah, the reality of that situation is kind of just like No, just put that in the too hard basket for now deal with that later.Kate Browne
And what the online communities give you is you don't necessarily have to come out to your own friends, but you can do this community and they're not going to judge you. And I think that's what's really cool about social.Franko Ali
So Sarah is 29, turning 30 this year, I spoke with her on the phone about her relationship with debt.Unknown Speaker
So I remember a very long time ago, reading something that was like, Money can't buy you happiness. However, there's like research that's done like up to a certain dollar value, it actually can buy you happiness. And I was always like, Oh, that's a load of crap. And then I was in that group, I think it was like, especially like 65 K or something. And I was like, sitting around there and I was like, Oh, I'm noticing like, if I don't have just even money in my bank account like that significantly impacted my my mental health. And I kind of felt like a bit of a failure. Definitely. For me, it was kind of like a point of pride of life. I never wanted to be seen to be a stingy person or to be without anything. And so I guess I've kind of how I got into this situation and was like, I just was like, Oh, that's okay. I'll just borrow more so that I can be seen to be you know, not lacking anything.Franko Ali
Sarah story is not unique, right? Like a lot of people share that raw, intimate detail. Another kind of place that I looked around for and asked a few people why, why they joined this community like how they first found it, what they love about it, you can kind of see people really share their all when it comes to this stuff. Just a few responses from people on Facebook that I had asked like what they like about the community, you'll see people saying that they just love seeing other people's stories that raw that real you'll, you'll see that all over the place. People appreciate the honest feedback, the transparency, and the word that kept coming back there was vulnerability which you could kind of hear and Sarah's story there.Sally
I think the thing that sticks out to me the most about these communities is exactly that how vulnerable people are, how open they are with something that is so personal, especially when it comes to talking about money. It's usually something that, you know, it's an awkward topic. It's a bit taboo. So how did these people get so comfortable sharing, you know, these quite intimate details of their life and their journey on something so public like Instagram, where they have thousands of followers.Franko Ali
So that vulnerability that openness, people talk about quite a bit, and you'll see that so many people are anonymous on there. You know, more than a few people mentioned that they're anonymous, because of actual risks, like, they share what banks they have, where they live, that sort of stuff.Kate Browne
There is a real cost, it's more than just the ego. It's like a very tangible risk.Franko Ali
So Emma, who we heard from earlier, looking after my sense, she talked a lot about how her relationship with her partner came in that discussion about being open and vulnerable. She started out sharing a lot more than she now does, she started out being a lot more free. And over time, she's sort of closed the doors a little bit to her audience. Now that they've merged their money together, she doesn't tend to put as much out there. Which is interesting, I think, to hear her talk about that transparency evolving over time.Kate Browne
So what types of debt are people in? Is it people who have just gone crazy with their credit cards? Or you know, is it people that have, you know, bitten off more than they can chew with lines? I'm really fascinated, is there a time?Franko Ali
So what kind of debt are people in? Here's a couple profiles that just kind of illustrate like the kinds of ways people share.Sally
Wow, my God, they fully break it down by products and the providers that they're from and like the amounts that they've paid off and still,Franko Ali
we're looking at an account from a user called financial mama boss. She's got a loan From one bank alone from another bank, those are 18 K and eight K and then a credit card from one bank that six k that's already paid off a car loan that she's tackling currently. And then two more credit cards. So this is just one image on her her account here, but she shows like I started with $82,800 in debt, and my remaining is $21,900.Kate Browne
I love this technique because it's it's like just putting it out there. The numbers don't lie, but it's also quite self serving because she's got that beautiful reduction in her debt as well which is really cool. So you know, for her, that's a visual shake and look out and feel really proud of but also to me, it's so fascinating, you know, the various places we've got, you know, $18,000 wine, you know, carline $39,000, like that's huge and you can't ostrich and stick your head in the sand when you lay it out wide that you know you're accountable to yourself and you're accountable to your followers as well. cannot pretendFranko Ali
you can see on this next link I've got there this is Katie looks like by the provider she has here is also in the US. So debt free underscore KD. She's got a whiteboard here and it looks like it's probably up in her house summer break down as well.Sally
And also the video of her physically wiping out the debt on her whiteboard and then rewriting the low number likeUnknown Speaker
oh baby.Franko Ali
So this is a clip from a woman in the US in Indiana actually named chelsa and she goes by debt free weirdoUnknown Speaker
love the name. Our student loan totals were hundred and 87,000 credit card debt of about 30,000. We had two cars at 26,000 and just a little bit of medical debt. So without including our mortgage, our debt total is $246,000 I mean, we felt the burden of debt, but we kind of were sucked into this mentality that as long as we could afford the minimum payments that we were doing, okay, so we had two car payments, student loan payments done more than our mortgage, but we are making a good income. And we, you know, we were just getting byKate Browne
a phrase I was just thinking about that I heard that I thought was really good as like, what isn't measured isn't dumb. And that's kind of like what these guys are applying to their debt. So they actually putting it out there and measuring it, they're doing it and that's almost the thing about paying off the minimums like that's the thing that stops I don't know, the credit is from coming around and banging on your door, but actually not a good thing.Sally
Yeah, it doesn't keep your head from you know, underwater.Kate Browne
No, it does allow you to keep your head in the sand. You can just like you can just pay off that little bit to stop things from going actually pear shapes. But it doesn't get you anywhere and it is it's it's interesting that we kind of we work In a world where we know that's not good, but let's face it, like banks and financial institutions don't make it that easy. They give off the impression that's all you need to do. Yeah, exactly. It's just that that the education isn't there and we're not learning this stuff in school and like you said, you know, it's not always clear as day on on some of the banks websites and whatnot. So yeah, people don't have a lot of savings. You know, Australians only have a couple of thousand dollars in the bank. I think from some research we've done here that is not enough when things go head over heelsFranko Ali
that's something right like if you look back at the baby steps from Dave Ramsey and Scott papes steps yeah first somewhere else in the first two steps there is like your emergency fund and that means a different thing to a different person. Some people's thousand dollars will get them you know, to cover just one medical emergency potentially in the US like an ambulance costs four grand so yeah, emergency. Yeah, can be different. Every kid maybe you have to add another two Okay, I don't know.Unknown Speaker
Um, other than that, let me tell you.Franko Ali
So the next kind of thing that I got into in my research here was looking at the tips, the tools, the strategies that people use to pay off their debt. And like I mentioned with the baby steps, you'll see those on Instagram you'll see so hashtag baby step two on Instagram has over 100,000 posts for the most part, you can assume those are Dave Ramsey disciples as it were kind of tackling that second baby step which is to pay off all your debt using the snowball. So this is someone named Emily. She goes by @aussiedebtfreegirl on Instagram. She's a stay at home mom up in Brisbane, Queensland, the northern states for our international listeners when we got into kind of the strategies that she uses to pay off her debt. This is what she told me.Unknown Speaker
It doesn't sound like it'd be a big thing. It sounds like it's you know inconsequential, but $5 here and $10 there really does add up to huge amounts. Even though I know that I know it, Michael, I'm still surprised every single month when I go and I add up those tiny little payments and realise that I've accidentally thrown like $400 extra that I didn't couldn't find in my budget. I found $400 extra just to throw it this collar or whatever learn I'm working on at the time. And it can literally be from anywhere, at anything, whether it's all I came $5 under on my food budget through that $5 over there, whether it's I like to round down my accounts, I like nice round numbers. So if it's a weird number, I'll just take all of the little dollar here a few cents there, throw them all together and throw them on the collar because every dollar counts and Every Day Counts. So if I put $1 extra on my collar today, it's $1. I'm not paying interest on for the rest of the life of my colour.Franko Ali
She also talked about one of your face side hustles side hustles are a very common theme in this community as you can probably imagine. side hustles are just ways of earning a little bit of income outside of your nine to five as it were, and one of Emily's favourite side hustles here was doing online surveys.Unknown Speaker
I've been interested in the but never actually done them before until I saw other people in the debt free community having some success with it. So I checked it out I read the PDSs and I did it for myself and I've had I'm so grateful because I've had great success with that. I mean, I said hustled just by myself, me personally not my partner or like overtime over just outside side hustle income, more than $3,000 between the middle of August and the 31st of December. The biggest payment I got was $300 and the rest were all like 20 and under.Sally
I think that's cool because as you said Emily is a stay at home mom. She You know, taking care of a family, but then it's like an extra stream of income for the family.Kate Browne
Yeah, cuz always like side hustles I was saying I, you know, eight, so time you go to the house, and if you got kids, you can't do that, especially if they're little kids, and they're gonna interrupt you every five seconds. So she's been really strategic. And I know I'm very guilty of not minding the small amounts of money that accidentally wriggled a way out of my account or whatever. And that example is like kind of blowing me away like three grand between August and December is,Franko Ali
yeah, it's a lot if you kind of go back and look at the hashtag that we looked at the beginning, you'll see side hustles inaction if all types excited, so obviously, you can look at just that hashtag as well. But people are selling things on Facebook marketplace, people are using cashback apps or if you shop you get this and of course there are tools like why is there Why is there obviously as you out there heard is sponsoring this episode. So when I was chatting with the wiser team about this episode, And, you know the story we wanted to investigate, they helped me get in touch with a couple of their users. And to be honest, if you're paying off debt, it's one of those tools that might actually be worth checking out. So Sarah, she's not one of the Instagram debt free community, folks, but she's on her own debt free journey. And here she was talking about wiser.Unknown Speaker
I discovered wiser through LinkedIn because a colleague of mine met someone who works there. Obviously, we live in like a fairly cashless society these days, but like back in the day, when we used a lot of cash, when you get the change, it's you putting a shrapnel in a jar, but instead of a going in a job, it's paying off whatever debt you've nominated.Franko Ali
And Andrew is another wise user. He lives outside of Melbourne in a suburb called wherever the him and his partner are tackling their debt together.Unknown Speaker
I signed up and since then I put a thing at Dell is entitled towards my credit card. Finally ran up to the nearest dollar so tonight's 90 cents he 50 cents, but it all definitely adds up.Franko Ali
choza are debt free weirdos who we heard from earlier, she talks about their chipping away strategy as well.Unknown Speaker
Well when we first started we just kind of wanted to examine everything that we were giving our money to every month I think that debt like in a simple form become debt free is just all about lowering your monthly expenses and increasing your monthly income to create a gap where you can just take as much as you can and throw it to debt above the minimum payment. So not just $20 but literally every penny that you can be use a combo of two methods like the Debt Snowball method and the Debt Avalanche method.Franko Ali
So the Debt Snowball and the Debt Avalanche method those are two ways that people approach paying off their debt and the Debt Snowball made popular by baby step number two and Dave Ramsey's programme. So these two methods take a different approach on debt. One of them the Debt Snowball is more of a mindset focus one. So say you have five different types of debt, you've got a credit card, a student loan, medical debt, that sort of thing. you line them all up and the snowball says take the smallest debt first and pay it off. Then you roll to the next one and pay it off the avalanche on the other hand, instead of tackling the smallest one first you tackle the highest interest rate. This is the one I use when I was paying off my student loans in the US I had like four or five different interest rate loans from the federal government because that's how crazyKate Browne
Hello AmericaFranko Ali
so yeah, I kind of just like okay, there's one with 3.5% there's one with 5.7%Kate Browne
you go for theFranko Ali
mathematically speaking you're gonna say yeah, money but you don't like my highest amount was on a lower interest rate. So it just I didn't feel like I was winning maybe as muchSally
personally I would go for the for the high interest approach, but this is generally advisor in myKate Browne
case, practical advice is do something rather than nothing. Yeah. So if you know if you really just go and just write, to have my brain, it's just, you know, chip away.Franko Ali
So in the same vein as writing out your doubt, like physically that we talked about earlier, there's a lot of people on Instagram on the internet having blogs that have printouts so these are a couple of examples of debt free charts from debt free charts.com. These are run by a woman named Heidi who's got quite a following on Instagram 49,000 people following her Sally, maybe you can talk about what your chart that I've given you there.Sally
Okay, so with this one, it's almost like a graph of your dad and you put in the amount of debt that you have every month from January through to December and then it's kind of like, as you're paying it off, you would see your debt going, hopefully, down to the rightFranko Ali
and I've got here this is One I loved called dumb stuff. And you'll see these on Instagram but people go through and they'll just highlight and fill it. Kind of like filling up a bucket right like you're Yeah, that's there.Kate Browne
This is cool. Mine is literally little space invaders. you nominate how much each little invader is that what they called h though alien. He No matter how much he little alien is worth. And then you get to pick them off. You get to colour them in. I like it. Frank, I like these are awesome tips. And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do these. I'm going to do these. But how do you actually stay motivated beyond the first month? Okay,Franko Ali
so a lot of people share their own tips for motivation. And a lot of it is kind of in that realm of just keeping your energy up. Some of these visual mediums that we've talked about, just help people have fun with it. So this is a young woman who goes by the name, barefoot millennial on Instagram. You can see right there in the name. She's a scopic fan. Yeah. So she's 20 Six and she lives here in Australia.Unknown Speaker
I think another thing that motivates me is seeing people in the debt free community do these really cool things for their life and they wanted to do for so long, and then they get there. And it's just incredible. I've seen a few girls that I follow and they really wanted to buy a house. And they've talked about these massive numbers that they want to save their deposit and just seeing them get there. It's just really astounding, you got with us, they can do that. Maybe I can do it too.Franko Ali
There's a lot of couples that are doing this stuff together. And this is a couple from the Bay Area in California, shout out area named Mel and Murph. They go by accepting funds on Instagram.Murph
I think a few ways that helps us stay motivated. The behaviour change that we've had over these past five to six years in regards to how we handle money, the things we've learned, the digital mentors that we've been listening to and how we incorporated those different methods and ideology about money. So I think there's the you know, me and my wife were very disciplined and committed individuals. When it comes to almost anything alive, you know, fitness, finance or what have you. But I think what helped us stay motivated is the fact that we both communicated. And we had a common goal and we had a why on why we were actually doing what we were doing. So that that really was imperative to help us stay motivated.Unknown Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Definitely having our why and our vision of why we're doing this, why we're trying to get out of debt, why we want to have a different financial future for our generations to come really kept us motivated. But also I think the other thing was, is along our journey, every time we would pay off like a credit card or a loan or you know, a medical bill or student loan, we'd always have a mini celebration or we'd always treat ourselves so we would always plan like a nice dinner or if we paid off like I think the one time we paid off like our car that was like a $17,000 loan. So we we took a weekend trip and got away and that motivated us to keep the momentum Keep going.Sally
I think that's really important because for everybody, you know, taking off those checklists or wiping off that amount of your debt whiteboard, it just might not be enough for maybe the first few times it would be really exciting, but then it could get old real fast and it's not gonna be enough, is it? This is where I think the debt free community is really interesting compared to say, like the fire community. I will I know they're gonna fire me for this, but it feels like oh,Kate Browne
not my unintentional planner. You know, it feels like it's deprivation, deprivation, deprivation in the fire movement. This is like, baby steps. This I'm flexing it. That's what I like about these communities.Franko Ali
Yeah, so this is another instagrammer, who goes by debt free millennial. She's 29. And she lives in Melbourne, Australia.Unknown Speaker
Say for instance, I was looking at my budget or something like that. I share like my minimum expenses. I'm like, I can be like, oh geez, my branch expensive. compared to others, I mean, my brain is actually really cheap to Melbourne. But you could also be like a house that person's foreign. So cheap, what deal are they on? One of the things I like about Mars is that you'll always be able to be like, oh, maybe I could be getting a better deal,Franko Ali
then here's debt free going to be his take on it.Unknown Speaker
Although it's called a debt free journey, and the debt free community, you know, it's not just about finances. So you the journey is, can be an emotional and a mental one as well. And it's interesting how the more you're in it, you kind of realise some of the normalcy, so to speak. And so when you start to get in the space, you start to say, Oh, I paid off my car early. What? And not only did I pay it off early, I have no intention of financing my next car, I'm going to save up money and pay for it in cash. And, and I remember saying that to my boyfriend, like when we first started dating, and he's like, really? Well, how and I say, Well, I'm sleeping for it with him. I've had to show himSally
So I can't help but notice that a lot of the clips that you've shown us franker have been from women. When we did our first pocket money episode was about the fire movement. And we noticed them that it was a lot of men involved.Unknown Speaker
That's something that came to my mind, like through this story pretty quickly, actually, when you just look through the Instagram, the aesthetic, it's skewed very heavily towards women. The majority of the people about 49% of the people who follow me are between that 25 to 34. age range, less than 10% are under 25. And then, so I've got about 92% women and 8% men,Unknown Speaker
that is while right,Franko Ali
and she's not the only one so the budget fanatic. She's another Instagram where I spoke with and she's been on this kind of debt free journey for about a year now lives in Australia. Out of my total followers, I think only 6%Unknown Speaker
on male. You know, I get DMS all the time from women who you know, either struggling or just wanting some advice or need help setting up a budget and things like that, and I'm so grateful to be in a position to to help others do that.Unknown Speaker
That's so cool sisters are doing it for themselves,Unknown Speaker
right?Kate Browne
Women tend to have a solid circle of friends that they share just about everything with I've read that men don't always have that. And it feels like this is what this movement is founded on is kind of just showing it all hanging it all out there and supporting each other. So I'm not saying that something only women can do. But it does seem like it's something that women find appealing.Unknown Speaker
When I'm in Australia, I didn't have my friends around me. Which then I guess my whole French world moved on to my phone, which in turn moved into Instagram. And even still now I you know, I would spend more time on Instagram and making friends through there of which I have made some really lovely friends on social media as opposed to being out and about in the real world. He makes friends with somebody through their Instagram and they would be friends enough that you would go to their wedding.Franko Ali
So yeah, that's me talking about like she's literally going to a wedding from someone she met in the debt free community who lives on the other side of Australia.Kate Browne
Actually pray for these are solid relationships. These are realFranko Ali
relationships and Nika again, she talked about that difference between women and men and that kind of friendship building.Unknown Speaker
I'm not quite certain why it's mostly women. Like I said, there's emotion tied to money. But men don't always talk about the hard stuff. Perhaps there's this idea that if they get in this space, and you know, they talk more about, oh, I'm in debt, and I made these decisions. Because of that we have this debt. Maybe we haven't made the space safe enough for men to feel like more men to feel like they can come out and engage.Franko Ali
And though I didn't talk with him on the phone, I messaged back and forth with another Instagram or called Brent. He goes by driving to wealth on Instagram. I talked with him about why he thinks there are so few men in this community and he Definitely agrees. He told me that he thinks most of us men just think we have an under control, but we sort of wander around aimlessly and are too proud to appear vulnerable or stupid. One of the things that I found with these people is there's that spark of creativity. There's that little content marketing vibe to a lot of them. But it's in a lot of these folks nature's to side hustle. And to sort of build something that they didn't really originally intend to people have started blogs off of the followings they've had on Instagram and they'll start putting ads on their blogs or start selling little spreadsheet templates that they've built. And it's pretty cool because they're sharing and they're making a little bit of money that they can put towards their debt.Kate Browne
But also if it's fun, you're going to be more inclined to do it. So it's again becoming less of a chore and more of almost like a little hobby.Franko Ali
And this is Emily Ozzie debt free girl who we met earlier, talking about how she thought about her brandUnknown Speaker
I am building Ozzie debt free girl Empire with have a blog, and a YouTube and Instagram and multiple streams of income all coming in under that brand. There are 12,000 people that are interested in what I do and want to see more of what I do that just mind blowing to me and I, while I love having big goals and I would love to one day have 2 million followers or something. As long as I'm helping anyone I'm happy. And even if it all went away tomorrow, I'm going to be aSally
better person for it. I'm going to be in a better place. These people are making original helpful resources that is super shareable. You know if you can turn that into another revenue stream one off,Kate Browne
and I think all this kind of stuff. It's fun, it's creative, it's creative outlet, and if you can make a little bit of money on the side what's not Love.Franko Ali
And this Instagram world is obviously just the beginning like you heard Emily talking about hoping she can have a YouTube channel someday and all that sort of thing. There are very big YouTubers that are in this debt free space as well. Asia Dang, she's a YouTuber that has close to half a million subscribers. Now here she is, in one of her videos talking about some of the tools that she started to sell for other people to use.Unknown Speaker
It's obviously going to have a financial aspect to it, but also a daily life aspect to it because I haven't really found a planner that kind of balances both daily life and financial life. So I put one together myself.Franko Ali
So YouTubers, they're talking about it instagramers people are starting their own little brands. But really, if you get back down to the nuts and bolts of it, people are just paying off their debt, having fun with it, like you were saying Kate, and just working on it in whatever strategies helps them.Kate Browne
So I think it's really interesting that That that debt shame makes you feel potentially like a bit of a loser. People have talked about how they felt depressed or down on themselves. And so not only have they kind of conquered their debt, but they've kind of got a whole new kind of vigour, for doing other stuff. And so like you said, some of them are becoming really entrepreneurial. It's when when really, I'm kind of tempted to give it a go.Sally
I think that's the thing about this community is that it's empowering at the core. And when you see these people taking off their goals, you know, you're sharing their victory. And I think like you said, k money and paying off your debt isn't usually something that we would necessarily celebrate it's just a part of life, but it should be celebrated.Kate Browne
Yeah, it's gonna give you that little kick, little feel good kick. Yeah, you could get spending money but instead you're going to get it by you know, paying something off and sharing it with a really lovely kind of supportive community who are going to cheer you on.Sally
Yeah, exactly. And you'll make some new besties and be a bridesmaid at their wedding. I mean, come on, possibilities are endless.Franko Ali
Another instagrammer that I spoke with who goes by Tasha gets frugal. She's paid off her debt entirely since she started on this journey online. And she had some great advice to share. For those looking to tackle their debt. She just says, Don't ignore it. Don't think you can deal with it later. Get honest with yourself and just start it can seem overwhelming. But just take it one step at a time you'll get there debt free life, she says is much better than worrying about debt. The sooner you pay it off, the freer you'll feel, and the couple from fitten funds melon murf. They also had some good advice to shareMurph
when you have debt. That does not mean that it's the end. That doesn't mean is the end of your financial situation. That's just the start that whole paradigm shift of it being the end in your mind, but then shifting to the start is when it starts that's when hope comes because now you have this resources and tools to get started into getting yourself out of the mess that you put yourself into inessa debt.Kate Browne
And remember there's tonnes of resources available out there if you do need some help. First protocol always as professional licenced people who can really dig you out of a tight spot if you are in serious debt.Sally
So head on over to find out com.edu slash podcast to find our show notes for today's episode. And we've got a bunch of resources there for you on how to create a budget, debt consolidation, finding your credit School, which is always a great place to start refinancing. So make sure to check there for all of your reading material.Franko Ali
And obviously with debt, it's a pretty serious subject. So you do want to make sure you're getting legitimate information in our show notes. But if you are just kind of looking for that support, like a lot of the people I spoke with, talked about people sending them messages all the time they've developed relationships. It's almost that like Internet shoulder to cry on for a lot of people so feel free to reach out to people online.Sally
Thanks again To our friends at Wisr for supporting the show and as we taste a little earlier in the episode as an exclusive trait to our listeners, you can start using wise the app fee-free for three months. Just pop in the code FINDER2020. Once you've downloaded and set up your account,Kate Browne
if you want to get a head start, you can earn even more by referring your mates to Wisr app to. Once their account is active. You'll both get five bucks. Everybody wins 20 invites could get you up to $100 extra off your debt, which is just for sharing the love.Sally
Wow imagine having 20 friends to refer to Wisr I mean that's a goal in itself. So start tackling your debt today. Just search Wisr that's w i s r in the app or Google Play Store to download. Thanks everyone for listening to our very first episode of season two. God, I need my coffee now. Yeah, I know we said we wouldn't go out and coffee's I have to have office coffee. So as we mentioned earlier, make sure to check out the show notes for all of the resources we mentioned in today's episode at finder.com.au slash podcast. And subscribe, follow and share wherever you listen to your podcasts and my favourite Spotify, but wherever you choose, we'veKate Browne
also got a Facebook group so head on in and join out. We'd love to hear from you guys what you would love us to do with this little season that started chugging along. So get in there and let us know. We are also on Instagram at I can't rememberSally
@pocketmoneypodcast.Kate Browne
That's the one.Sally
Pocket Money is Kate Browne. That's me, our producer Franko Ali who you heard on today's episode, and me Sally McMullen, and doing all of the editing and other magic is Brianna Ansaldo of Bamby Media.Kate Browne
and a massive thanks to everyone who took the time to speak with us about their debt-free journeys with linked everybody's account in the show notes. Thanks for listening.Sally
Thanks for listening to Pocket Money from Finder. You can head over to finder.com.au/podcast for the show notes for this episode. The Finder podcast is intended to provide you with tips, tools and strategies that will help you make better decisions. Although we're licenced and authorised, we don't provide financial advice. So please consider your own situation or get advice before making any decisions based on anything you now Sure. Thanks for listening!
The Finder Pocket Money podcast is intended to provide you with tips, tools and strategies that will help you make better decisions. Although we're licensed and authorised, we (and our guests) aren't providing any form of financial or legal advice. So please consider your own situation and get proper advice about your individual circumstances before making any decisions based on anything in our show. Thanks for listening.
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Pocket Money is hosted by Sally McMullen and Kate Browne, produced and directed by Franko Ali, with editing and theme music from Brianna Ansaldo of Bamby Media.
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