Two Broke Chicks Podcast Episode #108: Sexy Tips, Tricks and Talks with Sex Expert Chantelle Otten
Sal and Al chat sexual health, intimacy myths and the sex ed you never had with sexologist Chantelle Otten.
Sex is such a taboo topic, even in 2021. And because of that, some people might have no idea what they want in bed or know how to ask for it.
Well, this week's episode will hopefully make you feel differently (on all parts of your body *wink wink*), because Sal and Al catch up with sexologist and author of 'The Sex Ed You Never Had' Chantelle Otten to talk about sex, baby!
The gals pick Chantelle's brain on everything from sexual health myths to becoming more confident in the bedroom, whatever your sexual orientation, relationship status or experience level is.
LISTEN TO EP #108
LINKS & RECEIPTS
- Buy a copy of 'The Sex Ed You Never Had'
- Follow Chantelle Otten on Instagram
- Head to Chantelle Otten's website
CREDITS
- Hosts: Sally McMullen and Alex Hourigan
- Executive Producer: Pariya Taherzadeh
- Editor: Bamby Media
This podcast is powered by Finder and part of the Nova Podcast Network.
Thanks for listening!
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Alex Hourigan
Hello, hello chicky chooks. I'm Al.
Sally McMullen
And I'm Sal.
Alex Hourigan
And this is the show that dishes life lessons for the gals, from the gals. Welcome to Two Broke Chicks. We know that your 20s is bloody tough, and we're hoping that this show will just make it a little bit easier.
Sally McMullen
Including today's episode, which is a bloody doozy if I say so myself.
Alex Hourigan
And we are so excited. I'm so excited for this episode because in all honesty, this just isn't an open enough conversation. Today we are talking about sex baby. We're going to be chatting to sexologist Chantelle Otten, she's like the real life version of Jean Milburn from 'Sex Education'. We'll be going through everything from self pleasure to intimate relationships and earning your sexuality so strap in or strap on.
Sally McMullen
Why not both?
Alex Hourigan
Before we get into the episode, we like to start with our life lesson of the week. So Sally hit me, what's your life lesson of the week?
Sally McMullen
You did mention 'Sex Education' before, which is a TV show that we're both obsessed with, and according to the pleasure survey, which was conducted by Netflix to promote the new season of the show, 59% of Australians fantasise over their BFF or work colleague compared to 27% of people on like, a celeb crush or an influencer. So more people are fantasising about their workmates or their BFFs than like, Harry Styles.
Alex Hourigan
I would like to go back to our episode, that is lessons from the work wives, and one of the lessons of don'ts was: do not date anyone from work! Whatever that survey said is that 59% of people that are about to shoot themselves in the foot.
Sally McMullen
As long as you keep it in the fantasy realm, that's fine. Maybe just don't act on it. But yeah, I was like, oh, cannot relate. I have such a long- No, you're different.
Alex Hourigan
Thank you.
Sally McMullen
You're one of my celeb crushes, and I have so many celeb crushes. I was like 'Who has the time to fantasise about workmates?'. But what's your life lesson of the week, Al?
Alex Hourigan
Okay, so mine's super deep. Obviously, it's actually about microwaves.
Sally McMullen
Go on.
Alex Hourigan
I wasn't actually gonna say that thing that you're thinking of but now I have to. But pretty much, you know, when you heat something up in a microwave, and you're really excited for that frozen spag bol that's been sitting in your freezer that you're like, 'come to mama'-
Sally McMullen
It's been giving you the eyes.
Alex Hourigan
-or even just from the night before. The next day spag bol is always chef's kiss. You know, when you heat it up, and you take it out and then some of that dish is literally like, as hot as the depths of hell, and then other parts is still like, frozen antarctic cold. So, you're not actually supposed to put the dish in the centre of the dish on the microwave, you're supposed to put it on the edge of the microwave dish, and then let it heat so it actually gets more like surround sound.
Sally McMullen
It actually heats properly.
Alex Hourigan
Yeah!
Sally McMullen
So you're not like, one is like cold as ice and then the other scolds you.
Alex Hourigan
So you put it on the edge of the dish rather than the centre and it heats more evenly.
Sally McMullen
You know what? I literally had this exact same life lesson stolen away from another episode! If that doesn't prove we're the same person and obviously that this is like a life-changing life lesson because we both had it stored away. But yeah, I couldn't believe it either. I was like, how am I 28 years old, and I'm only learning how to use a microwave now, like God, my parents would be so proud.
Alex Hourigan
Today, we've got Chantelle, she's a sexologist, who, in her own words, is passionate about empowering people to feel great about their sexual health, self esteem, communication and education. I actually had the pleasure of, pun intended, meeting Chantelle at a Love Honey event back in 2019, and honestly, she's just incredible. The way she talks about sex and relationships is so refreshing and really makes you think about, and challenge your own personal relationship with sex, without feeling like it's a taboo topic. Chantelle has an undergraduate degree in psychology and also completed a degree in European Society of Sexual Medicine. She's also recently written her first book, 'The Sex Ed You Never Had', and honestly, it's a game changer. So basically, gal knows her stuff.
Sally McMullen
To say the least.
Alex Hourigan
Thank you so much for joining us, Chantelle.
Chantelle Otten
Oh, my God, I'm excited to be here. Finally, I think this has been a long time coming!
Alex Hourigan
We have had a little sneak peek of your book, and honestly, like obsessed. Sex is still a really taboo topic from masturbating, to sexual health, to just plain sex. And what are some simple things that people can do, or we can do, to become more comfortable talking about sexual health?
Chantelle Otten
Look, I think that, just like even listening to podcast episodes like this, like actually just becoming a bit more familiar with sex positive conversation is the way to go. The rise of social media like sex birds and sex positive people and celebrities that are sex positive have all helped us feel more confident in having those conversations and feel more confident in being erotic, even myself. Like I know when I moved back from Amsterdam to Australia to start up a clinic, I was like 26, and I had to change my hair from platinum blonde, to black, because no one took me seriously, and I had to wear like really baggy clothes. And you know, doctors would like ask me, "what do you actually do with your patients?". That's the thing, there was so much stigma around, even just my job as a professional, who'd studied for seven years to be able to treat people, I know that we've come such a long way. So even for now, I think if you can just start having that conversation a little bit more openly, be empathetic, be curious, not be judgmental of anyone's yucks, or yums, or kinks or, you know, beigeness, whatever you want it to be like, you just have to be open minded and recognise that sex is so varied and sexuality is like, so diverse for everyone. There's no cookie cutter model.
Sally McMullen
Yeah, there's like, never been a better time to talk about sex. It's actually wild, how much it has changed, even just in the last five years,
Chantelle Otten
Crazy. Even brands, you know, like, God, I would never have been paid when I first started to talk about sex. And I know now some of my staff are also doing jobs that I did like, couple of years ago, and they're getting paid. And I'm like, thank God, like, people are actually wanting to talk about this and see the value in discussing sexuality, like how unbelievable is that. So I feel really great about that. And I think for anyone who wants to become more sex positive, all you need to do is just tap into sex positive people, and it will become normal for you.
Alex Hourigan
I love that tip of listening to a podcast because it kind of is like, maybe have the conversation with yourself a little bit first, and like, get a little bit more comfortable listening to conversations about sex, and then jump in.
Sally McMullen
My next question is a bit of a two parter. And you talk about this quite a bit in your book and I related to it a lot. How can body image impact sex, and what can we do to feel less self conscious? Because it's just so ingrained in everything that we do, including sex.
Chantelle Otten
Body image impacts everyone, and their sexuality, and how they feel in the bedroom but I think if we can look at ourselves as having different masks, you know, if you're not feeling really good, that day, you do need to put a little bit of time and effort into making yourself feel okay. And that's not really even about like, putting on makeup or putting on like, nice lingerie or doing your hair, it's just feeling calm within yourself. Like even like a beautiful slow shower, being mindful, putting on lotions and potions that smell really good, having fresh sheets, like that all helps us with our body image because it helps us feel more comfortable in that environment. And I think if we can start with the environment first, and then move on to like, looking at ourselves and just realising how beautiful we are, how vulnerable we are, you know, how in the bedroom, it really doesn't matter because you will have rolls, things will jiggle, it's messy, it's sweaty. There's, you know, different liquids everywhere and there's different noises and different facial expressions. At the end of the day, none of that matters because your partner's still there because they find you really sexy, it's only you that has the issue with yourself. So if you can get over that image and just realise that you're there for pleasure, not for performance. I think it will help a lot.
Alex Hourigan
I've actually had to pull myself out of that mindset sometimes as well of being like, 'wait, this isn't about performance. Like, can you just enjoy yourself?'. Like, I've been there being like, 'okay, keep it up'. Or like, and then I'm like, wait, I'm not actually enjoying myself, because I'm overthinking this.
Chantelle Otten
Well you see yourself from a Disney point of view or from a pornography point of view because that's how we learned about sex because we didn't have sex education to tell us that it's allowed to be messy and rolly and weird and, you know, quirky. But we looked at porn, which is very performative. It's not for education, it's for entertainment. And then we have movies where like, you know, the lead characters are having this really hot penetrative sex and they're both coming at the same time. And look, I don't know anyone that's got that like, it's like, you know, it's not like that sex is just about experimentation and it's also like, we are going to change so much as individuals. There are studies that show that people after age 50 are having better sex than young people, because they don't care about how they look! They don't care about performance. They're just there to have a really great time.
Alex Hourigan
You're a Love Honey ambassador. For those who don't know, Love Honey, they're Australia's number one sex toy and adult store. So for those who are new to sex toys, or just want to shake things up a little bit, what are your tips and/or recommendations?
Chantelle Otten
Okay, so for anyone who has a vulva, and who has a clitoris, you need like a clit sucker. So something like, a Womaniser would be a really great one. So it sends air over the top of your clitoris, it doesn't directly touch your clitoris. So it gives it more of a build up approach, kind of like oral sex. I've had so many people come to me who have never had orgasms before and then they've used this and they're like, 'that's what an orgasm is like, whoa!'. Like, and so I always encourage people to bring their sex toys into partnered sex as well because if you're having maybe like anal play or penetrative play, you can still hold the Womaniser on your clitoris and control your pleasure during sexual experiences. I'm a big fan of the Rabbit if you want to have a dual orgasm, so it plays with the clitoris, it also vibrates up against the g spot area. So you're getting like,
Sally McMullen
Double trouble.
Chantelle Otten
I was like, 'ahhhhh' the first time I used it.
Sally McMullen
Hallelujah chorus.
Chantelle Otten
Praise the Lord, it was amazing. For those who have a penis, a penis masturbator is like a silicone sleeve and it's got kind of like, nodules inside it and it feels similar to the inside of the vagina but a little bit different. You pop some lubricant in there, and that's a really great time. I also encourage those who can't have penetrative sex, maybe because of conditions like vaginismus, which is painful sex conditions, to put like a masturbation sleeve between their legs and their partner puts a penis in that instead. So they still get that presence of a partner laying on top of them and still having like intercourse, but they're not compromised, especially if they're going through treatment. There's so many more to try though. I mean, Love Honey has got like 1000s of sex toys on there. I always love the Womaniser Duo as well which is similar dual orgasm. And then things like the calendars that they come out with. So if someone's new to sex toys, you just buy like the Christmas calendar and it is literally the countdown to Christmas and you get a new different toy every single day, and it's vaboosh! We love it.
Alex Hourigan
Sally and I did a video with Love Honey a couple years ago, we love Love Honey, big fans. We did a video showcasing their calendar and honestly, it was so funny. I think at one point, we're racing to vibrators across the table to see which one would win. And works like walking past the studio being like 'what?'.
Sally McMullen
We're like, business as usual.
Alex Hourigan
So you said that you recommend introducing it and toys in with a partner? How do you think people can introduce that conversation, if they want to do that with a partner?
Chantelle Otten
So, definitely not there to replace a partner, I think you just have to view it as an extension of your sexual self. And so when you want to chat with your partner, you just have to say, 'Hey, babe, like I want to introduce something that brings me pleasure and it's a lot of fun, and I'm going to show you how to use it on me. But you know, it would make me very happy'. And if they're anti- it, I think that that's a conversation that you need to open up and say what are your fears here? Like, why can't we just try it and see if we like it? I think that it's problematic when a person says no, you're not allowed to have something that brings you pleasure in the bedroom because that's adding to that kind of orgasm gap, that we as well own as experience because we're not being pressured enough. So if it's going to lead us to pleasure and orgasm, then I do think that it should be in the bedroom. Even if it doesn't lead to orgasm as long as it brings us joy and makes us feel good. We should be having it. Regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Alex Hourigan
For vulva owners. There are rumours and myths that vibrators can cause you to become desensitised. Is this true?
Chantelle Otten
No, scientifically, we know that that doesn't happen. I think if you're finding that you're using a high intensity sex toy in a certain position every single time, then it will be a little bit more difficult to achieve orgasm in a different way. But you know what? That just means you need to add in a little bit of variety into your bedroom because we all need to try and experience pleasure in different ways and if you're heading straight for this perfect way that makes you come every single time, I wonder if you're there to enjoy the journey or you're just focusing on the destination at that point. So, no, it doesn't desensitise you. I think if you are using something very intense, maybe try and pull back a little bit and try different sex toy or a different method, but it's not going to damage your clit, you're not going to break it, you know, it's going to be absolutely fine.
Sally McMullen
We've come a long way in conversations around sex. But as we spoke about a little bit, there is still a massive stigma and shame, especially for women and young people. What can we do so that we don't feel ashamed or guilty about, you know, anything to do with our sexual health or sexuality?
Chantelle Otten
Well, I mean, that's the reason why I wrote this book, essentially, because it starts off with conversations that I see as very common in my clinic. And also, you know, I receive hundreds of DMs a day. Hundreds from people with very similar questions. And the shame element is tied into every single person that I speak about with sex. And we all feel shame in different ways. I don't feel shame with sex. But I do feel shame with other things. You know, we all tie it to something, and we do need to work through it. But when it comes to shame, with sex, I think the main thing that we need is sex education there, because the shame comes from a place of not knowing. That's why I've written the book so that there is a better foundation of knowledge there so that you feel more equipped to be able to have these conversations, maybe some therapy around it, and maybe just challenging yourself to move through that shame a little bit, maybe even just bring it up. The more that you talk about it, the more you're able to problem solve within.
Sally McMullen
Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And in your book, you raised that, you know, we're not born with this shame or guilt, like it's something that we learn as we grow up. And I was like, well, like, that was a bit of a lightbulb moment, because I was like, it's so true. And everybody goes through it, which is just wild.
Chantelle Otten
Just be patient with yourself. If you've gone 30 years, with being taught that what you're doing is embarrassing or shameful or wrong, it's going to take a little bit of time to unwind, to retrain your brain to come up with new, healthier sex positive narratives around what you're doing. So just treat yourself with compassion and move forward slowly.
Alex Hourigan
So, I love in your book that you have chapters for both the single humans of the world and also those in relationships. What's the most common hurdles that both single and people in relationships face, whether it's separately or the same? And what are your tips for overcoming them?
Chantelle Otten
I think that everyone deals with actually very similar things. And that's more around questioning, are we normal? You know, is what we're doing okay? If we talk about sexual conditions, I think desire is something that we need to discuss. Because whether you're single or in a relationship, you're going to be impacted around desire in different ways. Maybe you've gone through a bit of a dating phase, and you just haven't met anyone great and you're just like, I don't even want this. Or maybe you're single and you love sex but there's no one really that eligible today. Maybe it's around like sex partners, casual sex partners, you know, when to have sex on a day. I think that we often think a lot about like the quantity of sex and maybe not so much around the quality. And I think that that happens in relationships, too, we start going well, we haven't had it for a week, like we need to do it like what's going on, or it's been two months. And we don't actually think about the quality of our sexual lives. You know, we really need to make sure that we are prioritising sex because it isn't actually that natural, it doesn't come spontaneously, especially in long term relationships. And I do think that we need to just be a bit more open with our communication around it too, because communication is the foundation for any healthy sex life. But most of the time, the hardest person to talk to about sex is our sexual partner. I think that those are the problems that I see quite a lot of, just not knowing even how to have great sex. Not knowing how to change your sexual scripts so you can have better quality like, your sexual menu, you might go into sex with the same menu every single time and you're like, I'm sick of eating bolognese like to have something different. So knowing how to expand, how to have that conversation with your sexual partner how to introduce your kinks, your wants, your needs, what's going to make you feel good. And you know, very commonly, of course, I see sexual conditions. So sexual pain conditions deep up inside the pelvis or upon penetration. I see. You know, difficulties with arousal, I see menstrual health conditions, I see things like kinks and wants. And I also see erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation and just so many things that are so common, and we're all going to have sexual problems at some point. We just, we just don't know who to talk about it with and how to talk about it.
Alex Hourigan
Before we wrap up the episode, we do like to play a little game called 'Pick Your Poison', it's kind of like this or that. So we're gonna give you two options and then you can tell us which one. Number one, crunchy peanut butter or smooth peanut butter?
Chantelle Otten
Crunchy.
Alex Hourigan
We're both smooth girls.
Sally McMullen
Controversial!
Chantelle Otten
With a spoon. It doesn't have to be on anything. I love crunchy peanut butter so much.
Sally McMullen
Okay, massage or sauna?
Chantelle Otten
Massage. I have a sauna at home
Alex Hourigan
Physical touch or words of affirmation.
Chantelle Otten
I think physical touch, yeah.
Sally McMullen
Okay, toys or on your own.
Chantelle Otten
I spent so many years on my own, so I like toys. Yeah, I can do, um, on my own if I do orgasmic meditation. So that's like, you listen to someone and they put you into hypnosis and you touch yourself in certain ways. And then the orgasm that you have at the very end, like the one I like to listen to by Madison James, who's like this UK guy. It's not so hypnotic this one but it's more around edging so he like tells you where to touch yourself and you really don't go near your vulva or your clitoris much. So he kind of eases you up to orgasm, brings you down again, teases you. And then at the end when you do have the orgasm, you have like electricity running from your fingers, up down your body, to your clit, down to your toes and-
Alex Hourigan
Oh my god. Well on that note, missionary or doggy?
Chantelle Otten
Oooh, doggy.
Sally McMullen
Wine or cocktails?
Chantelle Otten
Margies all the way. Margaritas.
Alex Hourigan
Last one, leather or lace?
Chantelle Otten
Lace. Actually if I think about it, if I go to get sexy, if it's going to be like a chill night, I don't wear anything. But if it's a kinky night, then I will always wear leather. I don't know!
Alex Hourigan
Love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us on Two Broke Chicks. And if anyone wants to check out Chantelle, her Instagram is @chantelle_otten_sexologist. Well, that is a wrap!
Sally McMullen
Another one in the can.
Alex Hourigan
That was so fun. I love her. I'm obsessed with her. I want to date her.
Sally McMullen
Me too, I want her to be my fairy godmother.
Alex Hourigan
I know! But thank you so much to Chantelle Otten for joining us and to you, for listening. We love you! Head to finder.com.au/twobrokechicks for today's show notes and all the hot goss and deets, and where you can get Chantelle's book as well. If you enjoyed this episode, chuck us a follow on Apple podcasts and Spotify and make sure you show us some love wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks to our wonderful producer Pariya Taherzadeh and our pals at Bamby Media for editing this episode. Don't forget to follow us @twobrokechicks on Instagram. And as always, thank you so much for having us in your ear holes, we love to be here.
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