Two Broke Chicks Podcast Episode #104: Career tips from the ultimate work wives
Work wives Sal and Al dish what to do and (most importantly) what not to do to kick start your career.
Trying to land your dream job? Step into our office. With 12+ years of media industry experience, three uni degrees and way too many unpaid internships between them, Two Broke Chicks hosts Sally McMullen and Alex Hourigan have learned a thing or two about that corporate life.
Al teaches us to write the perfect cover letter and why you should stop oversharing in the office (although she's still learning that one herself). Plus, Sal shares her fail-proof tips to get a raise and why you should never get too sloshed at the office Christmas party.
If this episode doesn't get you hired, we don't know what will (actually, don't hold us to that).
Got a question for us to answer during 'Class is In Session'? Hit us up on Instagram at @twobrokechicks.
Listen to ep#104
Links & receipts
- 10 tips to write a killer resume
- How to negotiate a salary according to 25 famous women
- How to make the right impression on your first job
Credits
- Hosts: Sally McMullen and Alex Hourigan
- Executive Producer: Pariya Taherzadeh
- Editor: Bamby Media
This podcast is powered by Finder and is part of the Nova Podcast Network.
Thanks for listening!
-
Alex Hourigan
Hey friends, I'm Al.
Sally McMullen
And I'm Sal.
Alex Hourigan
Were your co-hosts for another episode of Two Broke Chicks, the show that's hell bent on sharing life lessons from the gals, for the gals.
Sally McMullen
We know firsthand that navigating your 20s is bloody hard. And unfortunately, you usually have to learn the lessons the hard way.
Alex Hourigan
Our goal is to hopefully make that life a little bit easier.
Sally McMullen
As some of you may know, Al and I are best friends. But our friendship actually blossomed in the workplace.
Alex Hourigan
We started off in different teams, but somehow puppeted and masterminded our way into working on find a style together, which is now two projects. And the rest is history.
Sally McMullen
As the ultimate work wives, we thought that we would combine our wisdom and trauma and share some of our tips to kill it at work, whether you're starting a brand new internship, or just entering the workforce, or you're well into your career.
Alex Hourigan
Before we get into it. We like to start every episode with our life lesson of the week. So Sally, tell me what have you learned?
Sally McMullen
My life lesson for this week is actually kind of related to the topic that we're talking about today. In Australia, there is a 14.2% gender pay gap for full time employees. And that basically means that our male counterparts earn more than $260 than us on average per week.
Alex Hourigan
How many times do people need to have this conversation? And the amount of exact people mainly, men that turn around and say, "oh, there's no such thing as a gender pay gap?". I know not everyone and not all men, but it's really frustrating to still have it denied by so many people and habits existence, just like not acknowledged.
Sally McMullen
Yeah, exactly. And I think in today's episode, we do cover a couple of tips that will help you negotiate or get yourself in a better spot in your career. So that's why I thought it was important to to bring it up. There's hope, ladies.
Alex Hourigan
Sal and I very lucky, at Finder they're very conscious of equal pay, and we feel very lucky for that.
Sally McMullen
Okay, well, what's your life lesson?
Alex Hourigan
Okay, so mine is maybe not as serious as that one. But I am literally a four year old when it comes to taking tablets, like I can't do it. Because I literally have to like mentally work myself up to do it, and then the experience is just traumatising in itself. Okay, so my tip is about taking tablets. I was talking to my doctor the other day, and she was prescribing me some supplements, just to help with the reason that I want to be asleep literally all the time. And I was like, I have no energy, please help me. She was telling me like which iron supplements to get and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, but how big are the tablets, I can't do it. If they're horsfield. And I won't take them. She was like, just put your chin to your chest. I was like, what, and she was like swallowing tablets is a completely psychological thing. And I was like, no surprise there. And she was like just put your chin to your chest when you swallow. So put water in your mouth first, then put the tablet and put your chin to your chest. I'm like doing it now. Because it takes like the psychological anxiety about swallowing a tablet away for some reason, like it makes you not Wow, swallow in a normal way. So like you just don't think about it as much, you're more thinking about.
Sally McMullen
Keeping your chin to your chest, maybe?
Alex Hourigan
Alright, enough chitchat, let's jump straight into the episode. Sal and I have both been working in journalism for a very long time. I've worked in journalism for five plus years, and I've worked at places obviously find out as well as MTV and e-commerce fashion brand ShowPo.
Sally McMullen
I did a journalism and professional writing degree at uni and did six different internships throughout the course of my degree as one does in the creative space. But I've worked in journalism full time for around seven years now. And like Al, I've worked at Finder for a couple of years, but have also written for Music Feeds and Rolling Stone, because I do some freelance stuff on the side as well. So we both have quite a few bylines.
Alex Hourigan
We've got a lot of experience under our belt from me to studying internships and full time working and we know what we're talking about. So we're going to share that in this ep. First of all, get yourself a killer resume and a cover letter. And this is one of the hardest things in your work life because they're not easy to write. They're a really big skill to be able to put together a really strong resume and cover letter because that's going to get your foot in the door. And I struggled with this for a really long time. It's so hard. I actually ended up doing a course on it because it helped me so much in the way that I was phrasing things because half the time I'd be like, what's the point of a cover letter? I'm literally just rewriting my resume, and it would be so hard to condense it down. And so there's so many resources that you can go to to get really good tips and tricks for your resumes. There are so many creators on TikTok, that are career coaches that give you those tips as well that you can put into your resume, your resume is supposed to be a lot of actionable goals. So problem, strategy, result. For example, if the problem was building an audience, it would be "I built Instagram audience through influencer marketing, which had a growth of 28% annually". That's what you would put not Instagram management, like that, obviously speak so much more. So things like that are really helpful tips that you can get from either a career coach or those people on tik tok that are absolute fabulous resources.
Sally McMullen
Yeah, totally. And I think another thing off of that is that you probably should be updating your resume and cover letter for every single job that you apply for. And you can kind of pick and choose based on the roles and responsibilities that the job ad has emphasised and go from there. I think another thing when you're going into a new job, or maybe you're applying for you've asked for a raise or something, know your worth and negotiate. So that can actually be really hard, especially if you are new. Or if you've been working somewhere for a long time, it can be really hard to gauge like, what are you worth, I know that I'm constantly underselling myself, and a lot of women are like that as well. So use sites like Glassdoor or Payscale to see how much people in your industry are getting paid and with your experience are getting paid as well. What I have done in the past is I'll look at what other people on LinkedIn with, you know, my dream job, their roles and responsibilities, their experience, and then go from there and try and build off of that, if you're not really sure where to start, that can be a really good place for some inspo. If you are in an existing role, and you are asking for a pay raise, or you know, maybe you want to move into a new role or something book in face to face time with your manager, because I just think that having these conversations over a phone call or over email is like impossible. Obviously, we're recording this episode at the time of lockdown. So if you can do advisor and that's your only way do that, but still, it's face to face, and go in with two or three different options. Whether it is you know, a salary or a role. And always shoot higher than what you really want.
Alex Hourigan
Shoot so high. Like to the point that they'd probably look at you and be like, what, and then be like, that's what I think I'm worth and then bought it out exactly. Take examples of job ads, that are hiring other places for that role that you're moving into, or that you're already in. Because a lot of job ads on sake, show kind of the pay rate. And so that way you can take that in and be like, well, this is what I could be earning. And this is what I deserve. And that way you also can show the skills that you've got relate. There's actually a study that shows if you're 60% qualified for a job and a woman, you're less likely to go for it than a man, get out there and negotiate know your worth. Because chances are if you're 60% qualified, you're going to learn the rest.
Sally McMullen
I've read that same study and it was like women are more likely to only apply if they meet 100%, then they'll go for it. Which is so wild and something that I 100% relate to. Even if I tick them all off, I'm like, "No, probably not gonna get it." The imposter syndrome is so real. So go for it gal.
Alex Hourigan
I feel like leaning on your colleagues as well, in those moments of if you are wanting to negotiate your pay, but you think you need to level up a little bit more in a certain area, you can lean on the people around you to upskill you and teach you and just make sure you're making friends as well. That's another tip. I would say like make friends in your work because you're seeing these people five days a week, if you're working full time, part time, you're seeing them still quite often. So you still want to have some fun with it. You want to go from those Friday bevvies.
Sally McMullen
That's the absolute best part of what we do at final like we have the best time ever and like we said we weren't even in the same team and now we're literally inseparable and launching a podcast together. So I think it's so important from that perspective. But also, you and I attend so many events. So put yourself out there and there are so many different events even online in lockdown, like different networking events that you can do in your industry to make friends with people outside of your work as well, because it is so helpful having connections within your industry, whether or not you're staying at your job or looking elsewhere, or you want to learn about training opportunities that maybe the people at your work aren't aware of get out there and network as well as making friends with people in your workplace.
Alex Hourigan
And I know what might be a little bit anxiety inducing. When Sal and I weren't necessarily working together, I would go to these events by myself sometimes, as well. And you'd walk in and you kind of be like, Huh, hi. But you just kind of have to rip off the band aid and just be like, Hi, I'm Alex, I'm from Finder, what's your name, and you end up making so many friends the amount of events I've gone to, and I'm like, what's your Instagram and I've stayed friends and in contact with these people and staying with us ever since is just a really nice thing.
Sally McMullen
And it may feel awkward, but everybody is in the same boat. And you're all there for that one reason. So just go for it, it's okay, if you're a little bit of an awkward turtle at first, it'll be fine.
Alex Hourigan
Within a month, you might end up with matching tattoos like Sal and I did.
Sally McMullen
Exactly that's what you have to look forward to.
Alex Hourigan
Impulsivity and bad choices.
Unknown Speaker
If you're a little bit scared to just cold call hit sign up on LinkedIn, because I know it can be really daunting. And it's also a bit of a boys club on there. There are also loads of female based mentoring or networking events out there. So just do a little bit of a Google to see if there's anything in your area or there are also loads of events online that you can do during lockdown, or you know, if you don't live in a city or something like that, you can find yourself a bit of a mentor who can help you along the way, which I think is really helpful having somebody who's been there and can give you give you some of those tips.
Alex Hourigan
And then I think the last one I would say is would it be be proactive or set up boundaries?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, being proactive is really important. Because it's so easy to just let life pass you by. And in a workplace, just kind of stay in your lane and do your thing. But I think that, you know, the way that you're really going to get ahead and be happy at work and end up in a place where you want to be is being proactive. So I think something that I learned in the beginning was, you know, I was struggling to move ahead or like get any real guidance on my career path. So what I did was similar to my tip before, I would look people on LinkedIn, who had dream jobs that I wanted, looked at the roles and responsibilities, the training courses and things that they did. And then I went to my manager with the list of those things and said, If I hit X, Y, Z, and if I do these different training courses, complete these different projects, pick up these skills, I want a raise and a promotion by x day. And then I was like, if there's anything else that I'm missing, if there's anything that you think I should swap out, like speak now or forever hold your pace. But like we're gonna get this written down, and then I would put in regular face to face time with them every week, and every week would update them so that it didn't get to the point we'd say like six months down the line. And I was like, okay, I've done all these things, and you know, business priorities change, or things change. And then that way I could kind of like accommodate that list if I needed to as well. But it was just like everything was in writing, both for like that accountability, but also so I knew what the hell I needed to do. But I kind of had to create that list for myself, because I realised that nobody was going to create it for me and be like, this is how you get your dream job.
Alex Hourigan
Fully. And then as well. Like once you're in that role, things aren't going to just fall on your desk or like, not automatically going to get an email or solutions aren't always going to pop up. Like if there's a problem. And it's like, oh, engagements down 10% what do we do? No, come with three different strategies engagements down 10%, I think we can either do A, B, or C, which one.
Sally McMullen
I think it is something that you can learn even if you are a bit more of a passive person, like there are things that you can do and just yeah, be more conscious of that come prepared. That way you're going to get your voice heard as well.
Alex Hourigan
Yeah. And you know, it's always good to know what you should do. However, my darling, there are some things that are a big fat No, and one that I am still learning. I'm still on my journey with this one is to just don't over share. I think personally, sometimes I can get a bit excited. I'll be around people that I like and like my extrovert side is like, let's go. Keep that work life balance and boundaries, if you can, because oversharing is probably one of the things that is difficult to try not to do because you're trying to build relationships with the people that you work with. But definitely keep some things to yourself because they can definitely bite you on the bootay in the future. Absolutely.
Sally McMullen
Less is more. 100%. You can still have genuine friendships and relationships with people. Without that I think this ties into my don't, do not take things personally or get hung up on politics. You know, so if you're getting feedback, don't take it personally, like take it as an opportunity to learn and grow. I just think that we both know from our experience and a lot of people feel the same way that just when you're working with people, 24 seven like politics is always going to come into play, but you will never ever regret taking the high road and just remaining professional. Don't play into the bullshit and the politics like just try and stay out of it.
Alex Hourigan
My next tip is don't date anyone. This hurts. I don't care how hot they are, I don't care how good the tension is. Sis, it's not worth it. Because even though my situation has probably turned out in like the best possible way, we're still on good terms. Holy moly, that week after I got dumped sucked. I was at my desk, literally looking at Sal with a straight face and tears rolling down. I was like, this is not the vibe. And you know what? I did some research for once in my life. Just kidding. I'm a journalist, I do research. But a 2019 study from job site Volt.com shows that 58% of employees have been in a relationship with a colleague.
Sally McMullen
That is wild.
Alex Hourigan
It makes me feel better, because I'm just as silly with silly gifts as these other employees, but don't do it. Don't know, don't do it. Keep it fun and flirty. But don't take the leap because you're gonna get splitwise for a pizza the day after you get broken up with and it's gonna haunt you.
Sally McMullen
And everyone in the office and all of your colleagues are gonna know about it.
Alex Hourigan
Thanks to my man gal Sal for getting me through that lovely time in my life. And you know, she came out the other side.
Sally McMullen
We have one more that I think is kind of related to this one. And that is don't get absolutely sloshed at the Christmas party. Don't do it. Alex and I love a good cocktail and take advantage of the bar tab. But I think keep it cute and classy. No where your line is with alcohol, drink water and don't go overboard. Don't make out with any colleagues and absolutely do not vomit.
Alex Hourigan
If you vomit at the Christmas party hand in your resignation the next week. Have a good time. But the hang-xiety that you will get the next day if you take it too far at the Christmas party isn't worth it. You know what? There was a party once that I had a life size cardboard cutout of Zac Efron and he was a victim.
Sally McMullen
He was decapitated by the hands of one of our drunk colleagues.
Alex Hourigan
He didn't deserve that. No, I was at home in bed. Like this sweet angel I am and then Sally messaged me and she's like, I have to tell you something. I'm so sorry for your loss. But sacks been taken.
Sally McMullen
He's been sacrificed.
Alex Hourigan
It was all good at the end, they offered to buy me a new one.
We've gone through what to do and what not to do. But we thought we'd answer some of your personal questions from the Gram. It's @twobrokechicks, in case you're not following, which we will give you a moment to go and do that right now. But we've got some cute little cues from our friend Rachel from Melbourne, Victoria. So she sent us a DM saying, "I really want to work at a fashion label. What tips do you have for getting your foot in the door?".
Sally McMullen
I think that with any creative industry, the best way to get your foot in the door is to do internships and start building your portfolio. I'd have never worked at a fashion label before. But I think that even at 21 years old, I had so many bylines under my belt just because I had done so many unpaid internships when I was at uni. It's an unfortunate reality that a lot of us have to go through. But I just think that that like gave me such a step ahead as every other person who had the same degree as me and good marks and everything. Your work speaks for itself. Basically, if you have a portfolio, so I think that would be my advice. What's yours?
Alex Hourigan
I would say even if the brands that you're wanting to work at aren't hiring, like there's no job ads or anything, send an email, get on LinkedIn, send an email and like, shove your foot in that door. That's how I got my internship at shoprite. They weren't even hiring. And I emailed them saying that I'm really passionate about working in fashion. And I'd really love to work here. Here's my stuff, like, here's what I think I can do. And it's a very personalised resume portfolio and cover letter. And that is one thing that I would definitely recommend is getting the personal email of who is going to be that hiring manager. Don't just go to like the contact@showpo.com like find that person's email and reach out to them even if they're not hiring.
Sally McMullen
This information is on LinkedIn as well so you can really just stalk your way and find the right person to speak to. We spoke about resumes and cover letters before, which is super important. But you can also use programmes like Canva which we absolutely love. So make a really professional looking cover letter or resume because if you think that you know these people are probably getting hit up by so many people every single day. If they open an app and it looks professional and it looks schmuck like that is going to help you especially in a creative industry and then if you want to get a job at a fashion label.
Alex Hourigan
Make a TikTok or like Elle Woods Legally Blonde vibe because sending a video when you're not required to send a video is a flex. If that popped into my inbox I'd be like go get them in here. Hired.
If you would like to send us any questions on this topic or any questions just for advice you know, we're always here for a chat you can hit us up on @twobrokechicks on the good old Gram.You can head to finder.com.au/twobrokechicks for today's notes and a bunch of other tips and tricks, as well as those TikTok accounts with the creators we mentioned.
This is just the beginning. So make sure to follow us on Apple podcast and Spotify and show some love. Wherever you listen to your podcast. Give us a review. Tell us what you want us to chat about. Thanks to our producer Pariya Taherzadeh and Bamby Media for editing this episode. We'll see you next time.
Sally McMullen
See you next time. Love y'all.
Chuck us a follow on social
